Some get more spin, some less. Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X Clear editor. I do not find these to dig at all. Bending Golf Clubs: 5 Facts & Fallacies He is also 1 of 33 TrackMan Masters in the world, and has completed thousands of successful fittings using TrackMan. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. Anyway, the scorecard couldn't care less what club you hit. The basic fundamentals of striking a golf ball have not changed nearly as much as golf club technology, and those fundamentals have their roots dating back a hundred years to Bobby Jones and his peers or even further. Please contact Patrick Gallagher at 800-437-1314 or email patrick@mitchellgolf.com. Not every iron or wedge can be bent. Needless to say, some people need more bounce than others; pickers don't need much bounce but diggers do. Albion, MI 49224 Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black Stronger iron lofts don't always create more distance - GolfWRX there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. make it a "digger" per say? OP, which is it you are asking about.. making a club 2* stronger or increasing loft? They know how much torque to put on the hozzel. Ordering & Information Well-regarded at home, he mixed his time in junior golf with the likes of Min Woo Lee and Curtis Luck, during which he finishedrunner-up at The Players Amateur before winning the elite Porter Cup and being part of the victorious three-man Australian team at the Eisenhower Trophy, played partly at El Chamaleon, scene of the Mayokaba events on the PGA Tour. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. I'm fascinated by your basis for changing the lofts? You might as well get a distance gap before bending. With the high bounce level of the stock G30's, losing some of that bounce by bending it strong is no sweat, but plenty of clubs have so little bounce that bending them strong leaves virtually nothing left in the bounce department, but bounce really only helps if you strike the ball a little on the fat side. When you get 2* gaps on the long end there is almost no difference between clubs. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? TaylorMade M2 (2016) 9.5* (2* lower) HZRDUS T1100 75g 6.5 Lets assume that the launch angle with a modern-lofted set of irons is ideal. If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. St Louis, MO. And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. All bending machines are not accurate in their readings. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. I guess Ill need to have my next irons bent weaker leaving some marks on the blade and hosel. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. I do know a typical modern club the PW has the loft of like an older blade 8 iron. of distance, and more playable iron trajectories. St Louis, MO. In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. Weakening lofts makes zero sense to me. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground. And yes it is common to not have an iron longer than 6 or 5 for some of these guys because they carry them all the same distance, and then hybrids come into play. Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . Pasted as rich text. Instead, I will take Novak at slight odds-on in his three-ball against Scott Brown and Arjun Atwal. Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. FAQs :-). There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. All Rights Reserved. The loft difference in the AP2 7 iron and AP3 6 iron is 6 degrees apart. So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lofts (plus minus 2*) The one with a ballflight too high, is delivering the clubhead I would never ever think of doing this on my own. You cannot paste images directly. What are you trying to achieve? JavaScript is disabled. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. Not sure about the AP2s. Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. What I havent seen mentioned is that iron shafts have changed a great deal and offer more low kick (higher launch/spin) options to be able to match with those lofts. Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. Golfers can talk about shafts until they are blue in the face, and different shafts will make a difference in control, feel and sometimes launch and spin. The JPX-825 Pro's are all 1 degree stronger than the MP-H5's. So, I was thinking that I would have the new iron bent one degree strong so that it fits with the rest of my set. NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! if we move from a "high launch" to a Low launch shaft, who reduce loft by 2* we also lost 2* bounce. database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique. For example, the first generation M2 5-iron has a loft of 21.5. I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. JavaScript is disabled. Hi! Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Guess I dont get it. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. Here are some of the facts, and fallacies, about club adjustment. Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430 The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. How will that affect it though? Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Mr Divots, good point on the higher swing speeds, but like anything else we still see higher speed guys still launch the ball too low, it just is not as common as the low swing speed player. With added ball speed comes more launch. Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. Justin Rose posts mysterious custom JR irons on Instagram. When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. Espana. It will also increase the offset of the club, not a huge amount, but at two degrees, it is noticeable to me. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.". 5 Testers Needed! Good question. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. The speed of putts is crucial. It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. What if I get those numbers with a 7-iron, or a 5-iron? What I was hoping from this article was proof for that a current 46* MB/CB PW doesnt go any further than the 47/48* PWs of the past. Loft and lie changes are more or less permanent. Even with the knowledge of club bending and its importance on your play, there are a lot of misconceptions about what can and cant be done with a clubs loft and lie. It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125 If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. About time someone who knows what theyre talking about said what the the real deal is with loft and modern clubs. Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. And here is why. Not only does it mess with the bounce/offset, but it's only a number on the sole if the club. Odyssey 2-ball Pro-Type milled face putter. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? Changing the lie angle of a club can help golfers more consistently hit shots off of the center of the clubface. Adjusting irons loft for distance - MyGolfSpy Forum Taylor Made Stealth 10.5 Aldila Ascent Red R flex, Wilson D7 forged 5-GW- Mamiya recoil 460 R flex, Titleist Pro VIxoptic yellow with revkev stamped on them. But if a high spin player gets a 15 launch and 6000 RPM with a 115 MPH ball speed with a 5-iron, then whats wrong with that? After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? All rights reserved. Display as a link instead, Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft at the best online prices at eBay! This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. Terms & Conditions Your previous content has been restored. 2 degrees upright - Club Fitting - Team Titleist The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. Your email address will not be published. (I ran into this today.) 4-AW with juiced lofts is the same set as an old 3-PW that would probably be 22*-48*. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Odyssey #7 Tank, I got a set of Titleist 716 cb that are bent 2 degrees strong (they end up being 1 Degree weaker than my old z745 I believe). What the heck are they were talking about? Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights. Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft | eBay While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! Free shipping for many products! Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. i dont need that. You may have heard golfers talk about how they need to use a flatter club or that they need to change their lie angle. Upload or insert images from URL. How much will bending an iron affect how it plays? You will see it often when a pro, for example, will eliminate his 4 iron from the set and they may strengthen their 5 iron a degree or two and weaken their 3 iron a degree or two to even out the gaps. So I changed my swing to compress the ball better instead, and just took extra club and swing easy. Well this article outlines a variety of statistics which will help you pinpoint which areas of the game you are above or below average. Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? Not fact but I do think more offset makes it easier to draw the ball. 3" = 4.6* and 6" = 9.2* change in loft. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Bending irons to remove offset? - WRX Club Techs - GolfWRX As far as lofts for amateurs go, I feel like long irons have to little difference between them. Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. When you start messing around with the hozzels and stress on clubs you need to know what you are doing. I use Ping I Blades and Ping have a 'power spec' on their website for these where the lofts can be bent to and still retain playabilty. Paste as plain text instead, Another point regarding GI/SGI clubs that I would love to see a fitter touch on is shaft length. But there is a lot more to it than that. Bomb and gouge. Can someone please discuss the advantages and disadvantages of increasing loft on an iron by 2 degrees? Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM. Powered by Invision Community. TM TP UDi #3, MC 4-7, MB 8-P w/ Tour V S+ An ideal Launch Angle and Spin Rate for a Ball Speed with a 6 iron of 115 MPH would be right about 15-16* and 6000 RPMs respectively. Loft is used to get the irons back to the proper launch window. The 27-year-old made his way onto the top level by virtue of his performance on the Korn Ferry Tour during the combined Covid seasons, and hes doing a great job in honing his craft. We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. What does the average golfer look like? Well break down what the average golfer (male golfer) looks like and offers data that can be used to benchmark your game against. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. having a discussion with a friend and we are in disagreement. I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. The decision wasn't about distance it was about gapping. The idea of one ideal spin rate and launch angle for each iron doesnt really make sense to me. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 Hi all, I was wondering if bending a club 2* strong would affect the playability of said club? The reason this happens has to do with an irons center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an irons COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. Yes, the T200 can be bent 2 degrees flat and beyond 2 degrees upright Titleist manufactures heads 2 degrees upright which can be bent up to a further 2 degrees i.e up to 4 degrees from standard Please sign in to comment TUser January 21, 2020 at 08:09 AM Along the same lines, I got my new T200 irons late last year. Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. United States. In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. Thats basically what companies are doing anyway. I completely agree with this! TaylorMade Rsi TP 3-PW (1.5* strong) NS-Pro MOdus 3 tour130 X Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. That said, people will usually launch clubs higher with a longer shaft length as well, (mechanical advantage/physics) so again, it kind of goes hand in hand with the stronger lofts. I was fit for my current irons and they were bent 2 degrees strong for ball flight purposes. PING Forged wedges TaylorMade Aero Burner TP 15 / Matrix White Tie 70-X TM TP UDi #1 w/ Diamana Driver: G425 LST 9on Fujikura VENTUSBlue 5S, Fairway: G425LST 3w on Fujikura VENTUSBlue 6S, G425MAX 9won Graphite Design Tour ADDI7S, Utility: KING Forged Utility Black 4 on UST RECOIL SMACWRAP, Irons: KING Forged TEC Black5-Gon Mitsubishi MMT, Wedges:ES2154& Hi Toe Raw58on KBS Hi Rev 2.0, Putter: Triple Track Double Wide White Hot, Balls: Pro V1TP5xChrome Soft Triple Track x LS. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. You won't notice it. As a lifelong golfer, a student of the game and having made my living in the golf equipment industry for 40-plus years, I have made it a study to observe golfers of all skill levels as they try to figure out this crazy and very difficult game. Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS. I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. I think it depends on the player and his swing. What to consider when bending golf clubs. And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? Tour Preferred X or TP5x ball. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or All very well getting consistent loft gaps if your distance gaps are varied. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. By NYonce. A Good Fit for a Clubfitter is the Post Fit. Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. Below, you'll see the results. Privacy Policy Will keep that in mind from now on, It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther,. Great point I am a low ball hitter looking for more distance especially in my high irons. There is no worry about bending a club that was bent last year or last week. This also gives me room for more wedges. The bounce angle will also change when making the clubs stronger or weaker. This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . people hit it further because of stronger lofts is such a wifes tale. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. Thanks everybody for the help! Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.